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feature-request - https://wisdomwiki.miraheze.org
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Description

Id like to request the following config changes:

  • please generate the following namespaces (assuming if the namespace "dom" exists, we still can have NS "dominic" and NS "domain", right?)

-NS: medi
-NS: tt (if tt is unavailable, pls use "teaching"
-NS: LCS
-NS: sym

if we can get namespaces done, we can internally start to work on the wiki. would be coolz...

  • we'd like to define some user-groups and respective rights, generally listed here:

1 (*)everyone ~ read only , create acct (after publishing the wiki)
2 new student (registered user (needs manual confirmation)) ~ read pages, write/edit discussion/talk
3 student (for access control lvl 2) (registered user) ~ read pages, write/edit discussion/talk
4 teacher (for access control lvl 3) (registered user) ~ read pages, write/edit discussion/talk
5 scribe ~ read, write/edit pages+else, move, patrol, (confirm new users)
6 librarian ~ read, write/edit, move, delete pages, delete history, patrol, (confirm new users), protect pages ((auto-)confirmed)
7 janitor ~ read, write/edit, move, delete, delete history, patrol, (confirm new users), protect ((auto-)confirmed) (ASSIGN USER RIGHTS (only admin and janitor!)) - code div's, templates etc.

to prevent too much confusion/back and forth for clarification, there is a page with very elaborate rights-assigments here.

with a lower priority (timewindow about 2 months) we would like you to enable WikiForum.


  • we need the CC license changed to CC-by-nc-nd 4.0 ( logo.png ) referring to Copyleft (-> [copyleft] internal link) - should be done by labster anytime soon (i hope)

already done:

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:YouTube - done - thanks revi
Extension 0: visual editor -done
Extension 1: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CustomNavBlocks -in review
Extension 2: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SpecialNamespaces -declined
Extension 3: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:GlobalUserrights -declined
Extension 4: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:PageNotice -done
Extension 6: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:AccessControl (or another working content management) -in review
Extension 7: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:PageTriage -done
Extension 8: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:StaffEdits -in review
Extension 9: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:UniversalSuggester -in review obsolete
Extension11: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Flow -done
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TagAsCategory - obsolete: managed to get HotCat running.

  • change favicon to FavIcon change logo to WWlogo - will those links be dynamic, eg when we upload a new version, will it update automatically? -done
  • can you set edits from admin-group as always patrolled pls? -done

thanks John!

  • is there a way to have the "site-protection" dropdown aim at "only librarians and janitors", for admin is too high (only few) and logged in is too low? - solved

last not least, we truely appreciate your initiative and your availability for hosting and administration, i tried to install a wiki somewhere on an apache, being a non-nerd i never had THAT much of a headache... so thanks alot guys!

---PS: this is an (edited) copy of the original request entry no. 42 of the fifth archive which was the one that has been completely ignored yet, maybe cos i didnt have a phabricator acct or whatever. original request date was 13:12, 10 May 2016 (UTC) ---

Revisions and Commits

Event Timeline

Wisdomstudent raised the priority of this task from Normal to High.
Wisdomstudent updated the task description. (Show Details)
John removed John as the assignee of this task.May 21 2016, 13:35
John subscribed.
  • VisualEditor is done.
  • https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SpecialNamespaces is not done as it is poorly scalable beyond one server and requires memcached. Please request namespaces through configuration changes.
  • https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:GlobalUserrights is not done as we don't operate a shared database table set up, don't allow free user right changes for communities (mostly for legal and privacy reasons). Please request changes through configuration changes.
  • PageNotice is done.
  • PageTriage is done.
  • Flow is done.
  • Logo/Favicon are done and they do automatically update.
  • Administrators should be already patrolled automatically.

Leaving ticket open for other points to be done by others or cross-checked (security reviews etc.)

John lowered the priority of this task from High to Normal.May 22 2016, 21:02

@Wisdomstudent
Site protection dropdown is visible to anyone with the 'protect' right. The levels at which they can protect an item depends on their own rights. If you would like this changed, feel free to clarify who should have what user rights. (Will look at your link later).

revi added a commit: Unknown Object (Diffusion Commit).May 23 2016, 15:30

i updated the request according to its actual state and added 4 NS-definitions. thanks!

why this wiki must look like a phoney:

in case you are wondering about the discrepancy between extensions + requests, and the actual contents of this wiki (none yet), please consider the following:

  • the schedule looks to invite the actual writers in july.

since the contents will be written by our senior-students who are mostly between 60 and 80 (pam is even 90+), we need to provide an environment that is as easy to understand, navigate and simple to use as possible. think about your moms and dads, or worse, your grannies trying to fill a wiki. yea, it hurts. but now you maybe understand that we need to account for the greatest possible noobism (aka "where is the 'any key'-button?"), and hence why we are asking for so many comfort-extensions and features etc, since we need to make possible the impossible and increase the ease of usability - and id like to do that even BEFORE any editors come in, to prevent them from feeling discouraged for they 'cant make it' and leave of frustration.
till then, my job is to understand mediawiki and create an appropriate environment, laying out sensemaking structures and other preliminary work. and i keep reading, watching tutorials, learning and being astounded about how mature mediawiki really is. but as you see, i like to plan things way ahead...

  • july till october is writing time, producing a backbone to this -somewhat difficult- project (of which no one of us even benefits: the purpose of this wiki is nostly to help new students to pass a certain threshold where things start to make sense...)

in this time, my job will be a janitors, to layout, sort and cleanup their mess, for you cant expect a 74y-old editor to learn html and css...

  • in october at the wisdomgathering 2016 the WisdomWiki will be announced and go public.

so over winter we will see wether our concepts and plans are holding up and if it works, or how we need to tweak things.

  • we are hoping to get two (or more) major scholars to work with this wiki and present their vast knowledge in an interactive way, but in order for them to come, we need to play by their rules, or they simply keep away (think about world leading scientists - if you dont give them what they need and ask for, they wont come.) - means licensing and other details need to be set properly, and we need several access levels of contents for various user-groups (mostly according to their actual state of education), hence the rather complex user-rights request. (and other tricky stuff...)

so basically the schedule is planned "generously" and we are still quite ahead (which doesnt mean theres any time to waste), but this is why this project must look like a phony to anyone not having the above information.

hopefully this helps a bit your motivation and goodwill to customize this "wiki for dummies"... as being mentioned before, your help is very much appreciated!

I may be mistaken, but I don't think that you may have you wiki licensed as "ND" No deivs because inheritantly every edit is a derivitive of the source work, and Miraheze could as such not legally host the content.

@labster may wish to clarify

We can legally host NoDerivs just fine. We'd just have to disable editing for everyone (and I do mean everyone) who isn't the author of the page. It would probably be easiest to allow everyone to create pages, but deny everyone the edit right. If we don't try some technical means to prevent people from editing other people's pages, we'd basically be enabling copyright infringement by design, which is something courts don't look kindly on.

The somewhat harder alternative would be to come up with license terms on top of the Creative Commons license that allow changes to be made on-wiki, but not anywhere else. Solutions would look something like asking users to do one of these:

  1. Transfer of ownership of user content to the wiki (either wisdomwiki or Miraheze)
  2. Obtaining a global, (non)exclusive license to modify and redistribute the work worldwide under terms you choose. These terms would include at a minimum:
    1. Ability to relicense under CC-BY-NC-ND
    2. Ability to have other editors edit this under license, and redistribute their works as well.
  3. Have users grant you CC-BY-NC license, which you then immediately relicense as CC-BY-NC-ND. I think you still may need editors to grant other editors another specific license to edit and modify their work on this wiki, because your editors would become infringers even if the wiki isn't.

All of those options are complicated. You may feel it necessary to contact a lawyer for more information, as this is not legal advice. Do not feel that you are forced into choosing any of those options above. We can approve anything that we feel does not enable copyright infringement.

@labster

this is an interesting point, since i assumed the legal note from "inside" the wiki to the "outside" of it.

let me explain:
we are a group of students of a certain philosophical line (deriving from theosophy). our goal is to build a repository of information and (non-copyrighted) material (eg. publ dom books or excerpts) as well as self-written explainations of terms and concepts.

now we will work as a CLOSED group on the contents, and we need to make sure that ppls contributions arent being sold somewhere else by a third party (NC); as well as we cant allow the dilution of original information by derivating the work outside of this wiki (ND). (the inside derivation is closely monitored and refused if not consented on)

the goal of the ND is to keep the information authentic, disregarding the development of the formulations thereof (the actual articles being written by contribs, which is an INTERNAL, non-public process).

we never thought the ND applying to the contributors (eg. within the group), but rather to the outside. hence we applied for an extensive set of rules/grouprights, to make sure those guidelines are being kept. means editing will NEVER be public, and not even "autoconfirmed", but only handselected ppl will recieve invitations to the scribe role (edit). in this, the wisdom-wiki is different to many other open wikis out there.

hence either labsters alt 2 or 3 suggestion would somehow get close to what we really want; i cant see that everyone transfers ownership to either us or you (alt 1). yet we dont want to generate copyrighted material, since we understand all those concepts being property of humanity anyway, just the selling and changing formulations/contents needs to be prevented.

so, was this understandable, or are there further questions about the goals behind the request to license BY NC ND?
do you see the legal possibility to make agreements with editors and have contents protected against outward diluting and selling them?
(assuming adequate grouprights and a licensing agreement with the editors?)

@labster
so i changed the MediaWiki:Copyrightwarning to the following:

  • By hitting the 'Save'-button you agree to submit your work under the CC-by-nc/4.0 license, and further agree that your article/contribution to an article may be internally edited and changed for refinement and expansion thereof by the group of editors of WisdomWiki (scribes) and that it will be relicensed for publication to CC-by-nc-nd 4.0

will that suffice for a CC-by-nc-nd button underneath the pages?

will that suffice for a CC-by-nc-nd button underneath the pages?

Looks good to me

But following up on the earlier message:

yet we dont want to generate copyrighted material, since we understand all those concepts being property of humanity anyway, just the selling and changing formulations/contents needs to be prevented.

So this whole sentence is incoherent, both legally and logically. The legal part is easy: by making a creative work, you are automatically generating copyrighted material. You cannot do anything about this except to release it into the public domain. As for the logic: You're exercising a property right by limiting the selling and changing of content. You can't claim that you don't want to have copyright while at the same time exercising a strong property right. You could argue that cultural mores or a form of divine law could govern reuse instead of copyright per se, but I don't think you could consider it a form of universal property if it does not allow a greater common use.

You did say you were into theosophy, right?

Anyway, I'll get to work uploading the button. (Because, for some reason, Mediawiki doesn't come with any ND license buttons.)

@labster :
that would be great. and thank you for elucidating my dazzlement ;)

so if we could get the namespaces done too, we could at least internally start working on the contents, till the other things come in, but most of them are for publishing/opening in two months or so.

so if anybody could do those, we would really appreciate that. :)

I'm going to be on an airplane in 10 minutes, so if anyone else could pick this up today, that would be great.

Going to invalidate this rather than merge into T407. Centralise tracking.